I felt that part in my back teeth. Twenty years of office life and what I remember most clearly is how fast good work goes in the bin. And how quietly. It gets agreed to death, and the meeting moves on to the next item.
It’s hard for me to move on from a lot of items, especially if it’s project based. It’s like I spent so much time working on something and raising it like it’s my own little baby, but then when I presented to the world, it’s not good enough to their standards. Your comment hits home for sure.
Yeah, and that's what so many companies get wrong. You want emotional employees when it comes to product and team commitment. And then you want non-emotional employees when it comes to restructurings or product changes. I mean, you can't just pick humanity when it suits you. "It's just business" is one of those lies people keep telling themselves to get rid of humanity on those occasions it doesn't suite them.
Thank you Hari for reading and engaging. This is so kind and so genuine. It's what makes all the difference here on Substack <3.
Definitely been here before. We put our heart and soul into our work, but it's not really ours, is it? As soon as it's done, it belongs to the company. Another day to place our worth into the hands of people who can ctrl + alt + dlt us.
I’ll sign that 100%. One of the reason I quit my corporate job for good in June. I have seen my company delete lots of colleagues (also, your ctrl + alt + dlt made me laugh quite a bit) during the last year. All for whatever money reasons. Pretending to be human, to care. So, yeah… I wrote a lot about corporate stuff because there was a lot of anger buried. But I genuinely feel like I’ve finally moved on by now <3.
Thanks again Stephie for reading. I don’t know which other words to use but I’m so happy you liked it!
Hi Sintija, very much appreciated. Yeah, slowing down or even stopping something that is pushing on ahead with full steam is very often very hard. Back then, it definitely was. I’m so happy you enjoyed it!
I really like your final sentence. I also believe disappointment is part of life. It’s how we deal with it though that matters. Grace and empathy is totally key. Doesn’t necessarily make the disappointment less hard but staying human at least makes the difference to me.
And that’s a lesson I had to learn. I grew up as a totally logical straightforward get-it-done I-don’t-need-anyone type of person. All the empathy, the humanity, that was something that didn’t come naturally to me.
I haven't been on the corporate world in 12 years. Once I got married, I worked with my husband in his business. So, I always have a hard time relating to 9-5 work posts...but yours was very enjoyable to listen to (played the audio)! Brought back memories for me in my office job.
Oh, I’m so happy for you. I quit my corporate job a couple of months back. Hopefully, in 12 years from now I can also say: For good!
Thanks Shannon for reading and engaging even though corporate isn’t your thing. That was also my last post on corporate, I’ll move on to another topic starting the next article.
Wow - you can be so proud! And Neil's praise was right, preparing the discussion and make room for a real decision is brave and what will actually help the business. No one is waiting for a death spiral. Good job.
Thank you for the praise! The thing is no one really saw it as a death spiral. And it still sucked to trash it and move on. So, being right and feeling right were definitely very different. Thank you so much for reading and engaging!
I like the way you described your experience and how that little email affected you. It just shows how important small actions like that is. Thank you for sharing and reminding us of that :)
This is such a good description of the part of leadership nobody romanticizes.
Killing something after a year of work is not the hard part because the numbers are unclear. Sometimes the numbers are painfully clear. The hard part is that the decision can be right and still feel like failure to everyone who built it.
What Neil did well here, to me, was separate the quality of the decision from the outcome that preceded it. He didn’t pretend the project was fine. He didn’t erase the mistakes. He just recognized that you had done the work necessary to make a hard decision properly.
That matters more than people think, because otherwise teams learn a very dangerous lesson: that the only work worth being proud of is work that survives.
I’ve seen companies burn astonishing amounts of money because nobody wanted to be the person who said, “we have learned enough; stop.”
I’m curious, looking back now, do you think there was a moment earlier in the project when it should have been killed? Or was the real failure not stopping sooner, but not having a clear enough mechanism for deciding when “one more push” had become sunk-cost thinking?
Yeah, I really liked Neil. He was a really good guy. For some reason, he got kicked as our CTO soon after though. But what do I know.
Anyhow, even in hindsight it’s very hard to say what should have happened. What was also very unfortunate for me is that I got put onto that product as a product manager after it had already started development.
I feel like I should have pulled the plug way earlier. Or at least made all the involved teams commit to clear goals and/or outcomes earlier. The whole company, back then, was still adapting the whole data-based approach. You would not believe how much important people’s opinions still counted. And by “important” I mean the people who had worked in that company the longest. Too much gut-feeling. Too little data. But that transformation took time as well. But I’m drifting off. I should have shut it down harder and faster or at least I should have pivoted the product very hard from the get-go. But as so often in life, it took me time to get into it and the company time to get out of it. It’s never as easy when you’re stuck inside I guess.
Anyhow, thank you so much Jenny for digging really deep on that story. It means so much seeing strangers read and invest their precious time into an article of mine. Truly, very much appreciated.
This actually makes the story more interesting, not less.
Because the failure wasn’t necessarily that nobody knew anything. It sounds more like the company didn’t yet have a strong enough way to decide whose opinion counted, what evidence mattered, and what would trigger a stop or pivot.
That is such a common operating problem. People say “we need to be more data-driven,” but unless you define the decision rules in advance, the longest-tenured person in the room can still outweigh the data just by having more organizational gravity.
And I think you’re being a little hard on yourself when you say you “should have shut it down harder and faster.” You inherited something already in motion, in a company that was still learning how to make those calls. That doesn’t remove responsibility, but it does change the context.
The part I’d be fascinated to know is this: if you were dropped into that exact situation again today, what would you put in place in the first 30 days so the team didn’t end up relying on gut feeling and hope for another year?
Maybe I'm hard on myself, maybe too hard. But that's me. I set my expectations very high for myself - and for others as well.
I mean, what we needed in the first days was clear: Objectives and KPIs. The very usual stuff. Automated test coverage, success rates, phone coverage (and most notably clearly blacklisted phones), etc. And all of them time-bound. Committed. No chickening out. No excuses.
As a marketing PM, I feel the pain you have when you have to let a team know all their efforts are scrapped despite the devotion poured into it. I still try to just get over it and tell myself I still get paid. But it’s still energy and late nights wasted.
It’s just business. That’s what people often say. I’ve been telling myself that for a long time. We want employees who are super invested into our products. People that go the full mile and do whatever is needed. That only works though if they are into it emotionally. But then again, we expect them to be out of it emotionally if we kill their product. But that’s just business then. I’ve been there. Told myself the lie. It sucks we want the human part to only matter partially.
Thank you so much Charlotte for reading and engaging. That’s what makes this place so special. Deeply appreciated!
No glorious final push with inspiring background music from Hans Zimmer - cracked me up, I remembered my days in Sales when we had to make ppts to pep the on ground sales folks.
This was a tough one Jonas.. hope you find that spark in the next project..that is already waiting for you I am sure.
Yeah, luckily that happened like 3-4 ish years back. So, there were another couple of projects. I want to say they were better. And they still went better and were successful. Nevertheless, I quit the whole corporate thing a few months back. Also a success I guess :-).
But yeah, I was reluctant about that Hans Zimmer line initially because it sounded and felt so corny but I also thought it was super funny myself. So I rewrote it like 12 times but in the end I kept it just because I liked it so much.
THank you so much for reading and most importantly for thinking about the content. That really makes all the difference in the world <3.
this somehow feels like a metaphor for relationships that ultimately need to end—you’ve tried and tried to attack the bugs, invested everything, asked for more time, but it just needs to end. I couldn’t not read it that way. also “You can’t argue emotions.” hit me to the core.
Hi elise, this is a totally new take on the story. I never looked at it like that. But after reading your comment like 4 times, I start seeing it. Looking back at past relationships I definitely went through the “attack the bugs”, “invest everything”, “give it more time”, etc. phases.
Also, I’m really happy you picked the emotions sentence. I wanted to simply convey this messages that logic and emotions just don’t work. But getting that said in a non-corny way was the difficult part. I’m happy I settled on something you liked!
And, last but not least, thank you so much for reading and engaging. That’s what makes this place special.
I relate to this on so many levels. I've failed mutiple times when trying something, looking for answers and I never get used to it. Luckily, I have supportive people around me and at times, only that emotional supports keeps me going. My failure push me to prove myself right. It was so well written. GOOD JOB!!
Yeah, I have very often taken those friends for granted. But then, when you really need them, and they really show up, you just realize how lucky you are. That makes all the difference.
Thank you so much Simii for reading and engaging. Very much appreciated <3.
I felt that part in my back teeth. Twenty years of office life and what I remember most clearly is how fast good work goes in the bin. And how quietly. It gets agreed to death, and the meeting moves on to the next item.
And the next day you’re supposed to be all over the next task. Full force ahead. The next item is obviously the real big thing. This time.
It’s hard for me to move on from a lot of items, especially if it’s project based. It’s like I spent so much time working on something and raising it like it’s my own little baby, but then when I presented to the world, it’s not good enough to their standards. Your comment hits home for sure.
Yeah, and that's what so many companies get wrong. You want emotional employees when it comes to product and team commitment. And then you want non-emotional employees when it comes to restructurings or product changes. I mean, you can't just pick humanity when it suits you. "It's just business" is one of those lies people keep telling themselves to get rid of humanity on those occasions it doesn't suite them.
Thank you Hari for reading and engaging. This is so kind and so genuine. It's what makes all the difference here on Substack <3.
Definitely been here before. We put our heart and soul into our work, but it's not really ours, is it? As soon as it's done, it belongs to the company. Another day to place our worth into the hands of people who can ctrl + alt + dlt us.
I’ll sign that 100%. One of the reason I quit my corporate job for good in June. I have seen my company delete lots of colleagues (also, your ctrl + alt + dlt made me laugh quite a bit) during the last year. All for whatever money reasons. Pretending to be human, to care. So, yeah… I wrote a lot about corporate stuff because there was a lot of anger buried. But I genuinely feel like I’ve finally moved on by now <3.
Thanks again Stephie for reading. I don’t know which other words to use but I’m so happy you liked it!
I also left my corporate job in June this year! Yes on that they pretend to care. You and I could have stories to share for days, I imagine.
Might very well be. Might also very much be a rabbit hole too hard to get back out of :-P.
I just went through this with my team. It’s so hard. 😞
Sometimes, the most powerful decision is when to stop. Not when to go full speed. Beautifully written!
Hi Sintija, very much appreciated. Yeah, slowing down or even stopping something that is pushing on ahead with full steam is very often very hard. Back then, it definitely was. I’m so happy you enjoyed it!
Knowing when to cut our losses, or dig in, be stubborn and carry conviction in our ideas and work is such a tough call.
Maybe instincts can help, data, seeing historical patterns that might suggest one way or the other what to do.
But then sometimes we need to be honest and be brave, even if it means a year’s worth of work goes down the plughole.
How we deal with dissappointment, loss and pick ourselves up, conducting ourselves with grace and empathy shows the real measure of a person.
I really like your final sentence. I also believe disappointment is part of life. It’s how we deal with it though that matters. Grace and empathy is totally key. Doesn’t necessarily make the disappointment less hard but staying human at least makes the difference to me.
And that’s a lesson I had to learn. I grew up as a totally logical straightforward get-it-done I-don’t-need-anyone type of person. All the empathy, the humanity, that was something that didn’t come naturally to me.
I haven't been on the corporate world in 12 years. Once I got married, I worked with my husband in his business. So, I always have a hard time relating to 9-5 work posts...but yours was very enjoyable to listen to (played the audio)! Brought back memories for me in my office job.
Oh, I’m so happy for you. I quit my corporate job a couple of months back. Hopefully, in 12 years from now I can also say: For good!
Thanks Shannon for reading and engaging even though corporate isn’t your thing. That was also my last post on corporate, I’ll move on to another topic starting the next article.
Wow - you can be so proud! And Neil's praise was right, preparing the discussion and make room for a real decision is brave and what will actually help the business. No one is waiting for a death spiral. Good job.
Thank you for the praise! The thing is no one really saw it as a death spiral. And it still sucked to trash it and move on. So, being right and feeling right were definitely very different. Thank you so much for reading and engaging!
Yes, that must have been really hard. Doing well doesn't mean it was easy. I hope the team comes out stronger after going through this together.
I like the way you described your experience and how that little email affected you. It just shows how important small actions like that is. Thank you for sharing and reminding us of that :)
Yeah, it went such a long way. Thank you so much for taking the time, deeply appreciated! Thank you <3.
This is such a good description of the part of leadership nobody romanticizes.
Killing something after a year of work is not the hard part because the numbers are unclear. Sometimes the numbers are painfully clear. The hard part is that the decision can be right and still feel like failure to everyone who built it.
What Neil did well here, to me, was separate the quality of the decision from the outcome that preceded it. He didn’t pretend the project was fine. He didn’t erase the mistakes. He just recognized that you had done the work necessary to make a hard decision properly.
That matters more than people think, because otherwise teams learn a very dangerous lesson: that the only work worth being proud of is work that survives.
I’ve seen companies burn astonishing amounts of money because nobody wanted to be the person who said, “we have learned enough; stop.”
I’m curious, looking back now, do you think there was a moment earlier in the project when it should have been killed? Or was the real failure not stopping sooner, but not having a clear enough mechanism for deciding when “one more push” had become sunk-cost thinking?
Yeah, I really liked Neil. He was a really good guy. For some reason, he got kicked as our CTO soon after though. But what do I know.
Anyhow, even in hindsight it’s very hard to say what should have happened. What was also very unfortunate for me is that I got put onto that product as a product manager after it had already started development.
I feel like I should have pulled the plug way earlier. Or at least made all the involved teams commit to clear goals and/or outcomes earlier. The whole company, back then, was still adapting the whole data-based approach. You would not believe how much important people’s opinions still counted. And by “important” I mean the people who had worked in that company the longest. Too much gut-feeling. Too little data. But that transformation took time as well. But I’m drifting off. I should have shut it down harder and faster or at least I should have pivoted the product very hard from the get-go. But as so often in life, it took me time to get into it and the company time to get out of it. It’s never as easy when you’re stuck inside I guess.
Anyhow, thank you so much Jenny for digging really deep on that story. It means so much seeing strangers read and invest their precious time into an article of mine. Truly, very much appreciated.
This actually makes the story more interesting, not less.
Because the failure wasn’t necessarily that nobody knew anything. It sounds more like the company didn’t yet have a strong enough way to decide whose opinion counted, what evidence mattered, and what would trigger a stop or pivot.
That is such a common operating problem. People say “we need to be more data-driven,” but unless you define the decision rules in advance, the longest-tenured person in the room can still outweigh the data just by having more organizational gravity.
And I think you’re being a little hard on yourself when you say you “should have shut it down harder and faster.” You inherited something already in motion, in a company that was still learning how to make those calls. That doesn’t remove responsibility, but it does change the context.
The part I’d be fascinated to know is this: if you were dropped into that exact situation again today, what would you put in place in the first 30 days so the team didn’t end up relying on gut feeling and hope for another year?
Maybe I'm hard on myself, maybe too hard. But that's me. I set my expectations very high for myself - and for others as well.
I mean, what we needed in the first days was clear: Objectives and KPIs. The very usual stuff. Automated test coverage, success rates, phone coverage (and most notably clearly blacklisted phones), etc. And all of them time-bound. Committed. No chickening out. No excuses.
As a marketing PM, I feel the pain you have when you have to let a team know all their efforts are scrapped despite the devotion poured into it. I still try to just get over it and tell myself I still get paid. But it’s still energy and late nights wasted.
It’s just business. That’s what people often say. I’ve been telling myself that for a long time. We want employees who are super invested into our products. People that go the full mile and do whatever is needed. That only works though if they are into it emotionally. But then again, we expect them to be out of it emotionally if we kill their product. But that’s just business then. I’ve been there. Told myself the lie. It sucks we want the human part to only matter partially.
Thank you so much Charlotte for reading and engaging. That’s what makes this place so special. Deeply appreciated!
It’s a double edged sword in businesses, especially agencies or places where you deliver a product.
Keep on writing! It was a great piece to read.
No glorious final push with inspiring background music from Hans Zimmer - cracked me up, I remembered my days in Sales when we had to make ppts to pep the on ground sales folks.
This was a tough one Jonas.. hope you find that spark in the next project..that is already waiting for you I am sure.
Yeah, luckily that happened like 3-4 ish years back. So, there were another couple of projects. I want to say they were better. And they still went better and were successful. Nevertheless, I quit the whole corporate thing a few months back. Also a success I guess :-).
But yeah, I was reluctant about that Hans Zimmer line initially because it sounded and felt so corny but I also thought it was super funny myself. So I rewrote it like 12 times but in the end I kept it just because I liked it so much.
THank you so much for reading and most importantly for thinking about the content. That really makes all the difference in the world <3.
this somehow feels like a metaphor for relationships that ultimately need to end—you’ve tried and tried to attack the bugs, invested everything, asked for more time, but it just needs to end. I couldn’t not read it that way. also “You can’t argue emotions.” hit me to the core.
Hi elise, this is a totally new take on the story. I never looked at it like that. But after reading your comment like 4 times, I start seeing it. Looking back at past relationships I definitely went through the “attack the bugs”, “invest everything”, “give it more time”, etc. phases.
Also, I’m really happy you picked the emotions sentence. I wanted to simply convey this messages that logic and emotions just don’t work. But getting that said in a non-corny way was the difficult part. I’m happy I settled on something you liked!
And, last but not least, thank you so much for reading and engaging. That’s what makes this place special.
I relate to this on so many levels. I've failed mutiple times when trying something, looking for answers and I never get used to it. Luckily, I have supportive people around me and at times, only that emotional supports keeps me going. My failure push me to prove myself right. It was so well written. GOOD JOB!!
Yeah, I have very often taken those friends for granted. But then, when you really need them, and they really show up, you just realize how lucky you are. That makes all the difference.
Thank you so much Simii for reading and engaging. Very much appreciated <3.